Ha ha, I did it. I just came out and asked.

here's how it went.

Me: so anyways I don't mean to be horribly blunt but I'm really quite curious about polyamory and how it's all working out for you and stuff
Her: yeah, john mentioned that you'd probably mention it - which is coolatysmee: how's it working for me? Great!
Her: I've got a great boyfriend who's, as much as possible, "the love of my life" in john...atysmee: and I don't have to deny the fact that I still like to flirt, that I still like to have other needs satisfied...atysmee: it's not all about sex, but that's a big bonus
Me: How did you get into polyamory, and how do the men usually respond to finding out?
Me: Is it an open fact in your life to your parents/family/friends?
Her: to be honest, I haven't really had to do much searching outside of the local poly groupatysmee: and as far as being open, I'm open with those who I'm pretty sure won't freak out about it...
Her: but I don't make it a big deal to the rest, like family, etc.
Me: Were you in a long term relationship when you decided one wasn't enough?
Her: right now I've got john, and my other boyfriend ron is like a member of the family, but not to the point where we're doing huge family introductions yetatysmee: I think I've always know, deep down that I wasn't made that way...
Her: I was a serial monogamistatysmee: then realized there were other ways of dealing with how I felt
Her: I ended up dating a guy who was poly, and the rest just sort of clicked into place
Her: it hasn't always been easy, but right now it's pretty good - as a woman it seems a lot easier (and safer) to pursue other relationships if you already have a primary relationship
Her: as long as you have the support and the communication with your primary partner
Her: It's still tough to deal with communication and jealosy

Me: yes, and how does communication go when you have to tell the primary all about how you want the secondary?
Her: but there's an understanding that you're not replacing or being replaced by an additional partner
Her: well, with john, he knew that ron and I were already planning on dating when john and I got together
Her: ron is married, and he and his wife were not ready to add any additional relationship for a while, so I waited, and John and I built up our primary relationship
Her: when it was right for everyone involved, Ron and I started officially dating
Her: with John, he's openly poly, even though he's never engaged in more than one relationship at a time (although he'd like to).
Her: so I got lucky - that communication and understanding were there in the first place.
Her: As far as bring up poly in a currently monogamous relationship...it's all about communcation and trust.
Me: well it won't by any means be the first time we've talked about the idea
Her: It never fails - the poly mantra seems to be "communicate, communicate, communicate", but even with that there's always room for misunderstanding
Me: It's howver the first time there's been a name given of another person
Her: ah - well, I'd recommend letting your husband dictate his comfort level...getting closer and more intimate with someone will generate some pretty intense energy for you, and he will notice it for sure. Let him be able to make use of some of that, let him share that while you find out what it is you share with that other person.
Me: this other person and I have had sexual tenstion for 7 years. I know what's there
Me: and hubbys been getting the pleasure from that for a long time
Her: Even when we rationally can think out how we MIGHT feel about a given situation, the emotions and feelings we actually generate tend to be a little more volatile and chaotic than we imagine
Me: yeahatysmee: so it can be exponentially more positive and/or more negative when it becomes reality
Her: and as difficult as it may be, time is a big tool to use in fleshing out your husband's comfort levels
Me: yeah
Her: there are many different ways to negotiate what is permissible between people outside of your primary relationships
Her: it's interesting to discuss how you two might actually define what is considered "sex", what is an appropriate length of time before this other person can spend a night in your home, before (or if ever) you can have unprotected sex with them...atysmee: Ron and his wife spent an entire weekend a couple of years ago putting together a relationship contract
Me: do go on
Her: I don't have contracts between my partners, but I do agree with them what is "safe", what is not "safe", how to deal with contraception, how to deal with feeling deeply about someone and what to do if your primary doesn't like that person...
Here: Setting some ground limits seems to be a good start. Like, do you share your bed with other partners? Do you designate a separate bedroom or location for your encounters with other partners?
Her: Is there a length of time you need to wait until you share passionate kisses with a new partner (for those who are concerned about spreading germs/stds)?
Her: Does your partner have veto power over your potential partners?
Her: (to me vetos tend to negate themselves, since if there is an objection to someone your partner wants to date, that may be an indication of something going on in that primary relationship). Ron and his wife have a 7 day veto power window with new potential partners...

Her: if his wife (or vice versa) has an objection to a new partner, it has to be raised within the first 7 days of the relationship in order for it to have an effect. Otherwise the potential for greater intimacy has increased to the point where it is unlikely that that alone with stop the relationship at that point
Me: all very interesting. i'd never thought o question if my husband would have veto power
Her: if poly is a new concept to him, he may find something like that useful, or as an initial security blanket to ease the transition
Me: When I made my vows, I promised not fidelity, but that I wouldn't do anything without his permissionatysmee: or at least the reality of it is that new for him
Her: permission is nice - that's really about communication and trust
Me: (i wanted to leave it open for threesomes and what not)

Her: for some play is enough. For me, play is fun, but I need more depth to my relationships, especially when I find someone I really care about. If I had to make that choice, John would be the one man I'd be with for the rest of my life. But...I'm happiest having the freedom to really experience where and what my heart leads me to...
Her: and right now I choose to include Ron that way in my life. That doesn't exclude John, that doesn't limit the depth of feelings I have for him, but he instead reaps the benefits of my happiness, my increased energy of being loving with someone else
Her: Again, it's been pretty easy for me, because I've found my current partners within the poly group...so that level of understanding and communication were there from the beginning
Her: But the concept of open relationships, open marriages is not new, and is more common than one might think.
Me: yes, I've found a ton of people who have them
Her: and most of them seem pretty happyatysmee: there really is such a thing as open, honest, responsible non-monogamy.
Her: For John, his ideal would be to have an intentional family. To him, the concept of having 3 women and 2 men could cover all the needs of the members of the group resource-wise, and support any children created by that union
Me: I'm absorbing all this (in case my silence is scary)
Her: no - it's (to sound totally hippy/druggie) a heavy trip, man
Her: there's a lot to think about, and you're breaking new ground in your relationship
Her: that's your foundation...
Me: I like the intentional family idea but finding that many people who work well together would be so rough
Her: and your other relationship can only be solid if your foundation is
Me: I think I'd rather be neighbors with outside lovers
Her: yeah, right now I can't foresee there being a communal living thing for us either
Her: we've only lived together officially since the end of February, and still haven't even made much of a dent in getting the new house in shape
Her: i think it's pretty vital for me/us to have some time as a couple for that (to sound all biology/zoology) pair-bonding that creates a solid relationship
Her: right now I could see us living on our own, and if the circumstances/situation is right, maybe have a kid...


and we went on for quite a while longer, but you get the point.

I'm terrified at the idea that I need you more than you need me. I'm not supposed to need you at all. But I do. I need to hear your voice, see your typing, read your thoughts. I need to know your still there. I need to know you still need me. I need the reassurance that your every thought comes back to me that your every action is somehow for my benefit. I need you.

The "I can have my cake and eat it too" Plan.

last night when I ranted and raved I thought that I couldn't have my cake and eat it too. I thought the only possible roads were to go completely with "The One" or "The Other" But today while grieving the loss of "The Other" in my mind (obviously I would have chosen the familiar and stable) I began to think about having both.

It would be simple enough to allow my feelings and actions for "The Other" as a side thing. To more or less have him as a Dick on Call when I need physical or emotional support of his kind and to otherwise live my life with "The One" in an almost normal marriage situation. The Part of it that wouldn't be normal would be that I would openly admit to who I am and who I want to be and who I want to love. I would, of course, allow the same courtesy to my husband who would be free to love whom and when he chooses. Why should I be constrained by values that belong to my parents or friends when I don't feel them. Why should I feel ashamed for things that I have to feel ashamed that I can't feel ashamed for? Why should others be able to hold their moral standards as the basis of which I lead my life.?

I have enough love for both, as long as they are willing to share. I won't feel guilty as long as I proclaim loudly to the universe, "THIS IS WHO I AM AND I DON"T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT YOUR OPINION!" if this plan is adopted I will state in public how I feel and why I feel it and that it's ok for me to feel that way.

if

Tonight when I crawled into bed I had this overwhelming guilt and I had to tell "The One" that I feel guilty about my sexual tension with "The Other". You see I spent all day with "The Other" and I mean all day, from 7:30am until almost one in the morning. Only about 6 hours of this was unsupervised and we were driving all that time, so there was nothing done particularity to cause a guilty conscious. What made me feel guilty was the fact that I couldn't stop thinking about "The Other", that I really wanted him to hold my hand while we drove, that I talked in flirting tones but more than half meaning the things I said. That I got a thrill up my spine every time we brushed each other. The truth is I want him. I really want him. The only thing that is holding me back is that I don't want to ruin my marriage or my husband. The sexual tension is getting to a point that it's going to become a problem. I don't know what do do about it. I need to stop it. I thought about cutting off all communication with "The Other" but even "The One" doesn't want to do that (I believe I have mentioned that they get along) I don't know what else to do. I think I realized the seriousness of the problem when the following conversation occurred:

me: (some flirty comment)
"The Other": You don't play fair
me: I thought all was fair in love and war
"The Other": So you think we're at war?
me: (pregnant pause) no
"The Other": Oh, you don't even play fair when we are talking about playing fair.

I can see things escalating between myself and "The Other" and the idea both thrills and horrifies me. I'm lost in a sea of confusion. I'm either going to have to cut all ties or I'm going to have to fuck him. I hate these points. Why can't it just stay a nice friendly light sexual tension that I never have to really think about. Why is it that even tho I can get what I want all straight in my head, all that I want logically falls to pieces in his presence?

Ayn Rand.

I have to fight against her philosophy. I need to defend myself against believing the things she preaches, because I so desperately want to believe them. Oh how I long to give in to the way she defends affairs. Oh how I would love to "Have my cake and eat it too". My men are friends now. "The One" and "The Other" are great friends. They play games together and laugh and joke and hang out like it was nothing. But I can't have them both. Can I? Would I be true to my values if I did? No I couldn't. I would feel guilt and despair and loathing for myself if I allowed such behavior never mind that I think of "The Other" while in the throws of passion with "The One" Never mind that each time I'm near "The Other" my hormones set me off into a frenzy of desire or that I can think of nothing but touching and snuggling and you know while I'm near "The One". I've often said there is no point in having cake if you don't eat it, but I still can't allow myself to believe the philosophy that demands I give into sensual pleasure.

Goddamn indesiciveness! It's like a whole freakish epidemic! Everyone wants to talk but they don't have anything to say and they can't even pick a random farking topic with which to shoot the breeze. They can't make up thier minds on what they want to do with thier lives and or what they might even want to think they might want to do with thier lives. It's like they make a whole lifestyle out of never actually being nailed to one opinion or even to a solid thought. I know I'm guilty of it too, but it just pisses me off. They all piss me off. "The One" "The Other" the chicks the dikes the whole prickesh lot of them all. Expecially me. I piss me off.

I'm sure hell is enjoying it's newly paved road. You know that business "The One" was going to start? Yeah he still has every intention of doing it only that he isn't actually doing anything to make it happen. The deadlines we set for making things happen are so close now that there is no hope of achieving our goals by that time. I'm rather disappointed about it. And you know how it goes one disappointment leads to others and being more picky and it's kinda putting a damper on the ol' sex drive. Which is really to bad, because even if I'm not real happy at him at this moment I'm still in love with him. And more importantly I still want to be in love with him.

I have been thinking a lot about "The Other". I have a bond with him that I don't fully understand But I understand that he is somehow important to the transition that I need to make sometime soon in my life. I'm not sure if by accepting openly that I have an extra spiritual entity it will make things easier for me or if I'll get really sick and need to heal all over again. But either way it should be easier.


"The One" and I have been talking about doing a threesome. It's every man's fantasy right? Well truth to tell it's mine too.